nfrs: why not push data into the GPU's memory and tell the GPU to use it? should be faster?
airlied: writing from CPU to GPU VRAM is slower
airlied: and generally you want to avoid the CPU doing anything much with VRAM
nfrs: so in which cases you do use VRAM?
airlied: the GPU uses it
nfrs: shader programs?
airlied: you store the framebuffer/textures/whatever in there
airlied: generally shader progs end up in shared RAM
airlied: but there could be cases here putting them in VRAM makes more senes
nfrs: umm, don't the shader progs maintain their own data?
airlied: not 100% sure what you mean my shader program data
nfrs: I'm not 100% sure myself. :) probably the current 3d scene
airlied: thats generally a list of vertices
airlied: and some textures etc
airlied: the driver takes care of placing those things in the right place
airlied: for when the shader is executed
nfrs: as I understand it, shader progs successively change that data on each invocation
airlied: generally the output of shaders comes out into a colorbuffer
airlied: at the end of a pipeline
nfrs: ok, I think there's not much sense in asking more 3D questions right now. need to get over ATI's docs and see the code
airlied: so if you are mainly interested in 3D, mesa is the place to really look at code
airlied: r600 3D dev is happening in a branch
nfrs: generally, the Xorg driver is 2d, kernel driver is misc API, and mesa is 3D
airlied: r500 and below is in master
airlied: nfrs: yes, kernel API provides hw API for 2D/3D accel to use at a lower level
nfrs: what about video (xv) and power management?
airlied: Xv is in the 2D DDX (likely to stay there for a while)
airlied: power management is sort of in the 2D DDX, but really needs to be in the kernel
airlied: to be dynamic and useful
nfrs: what is DDX?
airlied: 2D x.org driver
nfrs: I'm a bit scared of 3d right now. and, as I understand, there's still no high-level design for it
airlied: just another name for it
nfrs: probably will just see where I can be useful for the start
airlied: 3D is pretty well known in that its just OpenGL
yangman: Xv is implemented using the 3D engine on r6xx/r7xx. you can look at that to see how the 3D hardware itself is driven without having to understand mesa
yangman: it ain't pretty, though
nfrs: sounds good
nfrs: does it work yet?
yangman: Xv? yes
nfrs: ok, so I'd just like to get an answer to one more question
nfrs: how do you debug the x.org driver? :)
airlied: oh also it helps if you have 2 Pcs :)
nfrs: nope, I don't
yangman: it's doable with 1. just a lot of hassel, and a lot of faith that hard restarts won't corrupt your data ;)
airlied: yangman: you lose that faith once you lose your first HDD :)
nfrs: well, I've got a laptop sitting here
nfrs: my g/f's laptop, but I can use it
nfrs: not that I'd call it a perfect working environment
nfrs: do I have to attach a monitor to the debugged machine?
airlied: if you want t o see stuff, which generally you do.
nfrs: ok, so what's the procedure?
yangman: airlied: knock on wood ;)
airlied: yangman: don't talk to glisse about HDD crashes it's bad luck :)
airlied: nfrs: what gpu you got?
nfrs: airlied: hd3850
nfrs: airlied: rv670 (I think:)
nfrs: yes, rv670
yangman: I'm turning my laptop into a dev machine so I can work on KMS. I'd rather hack on r7xx, but I need the desktop too much right now to be doing silly things on it
yangman: or, testing platform, rather
nfrs: well, I use this machine for serious stuff, too. been thinking of setting up another distro partition
nfrs: for development
airlied: nfrs: yeah it can help to have something sepearate
nfrs: so how do you debug this thing with 2 machines? :)
airlied: nfrs: generally ssh
nfrs: airlied: and then gdb?
airlied: yes usually for 3D stuff
nfrs: what do you gdb, though? xorg?
airlied: no the 3D app
nfrs: will it allow to step into the driver's code?
airlied: generally you try and use small GL test cases
airlied: to fix bugs.
nfrs: well, I'm thinking of starting with xv
nfrs: but you said it was 3bD
airlied: well for Xv you generally debug the DDX so Xorg
nfrs: how do you run Xorg inside gdb?
nfrs: I mean, technically. set-up? commands?
airlied: gdb Xorg
airlied: break fnname
airlied: at least I'm too lazy to have any special scripts
nfrs: never ran it this way.
nfrs: I have no idea, how it'll work without a desktop manager
airlied: usually you also ssh in and run the movie player or X apps
yangman: I sprinkle generous amount of ErrorF() ;)
airlied: with DISPLAY=:0
airlied: yeah I'm with yangman I normally ErrorF debug
airlied: gdb is usually the second option
nfrs: heh :)
yangman: X will also conveniently stuff it into a log for you incase you want to compare runs
yangman: but gdb is a last resort, and I haven't required it yet
nfrs: ok, thanks a lot
nfrs: I'll come for more questions, when I have everything set up
yangman: for r6xx Xv, the shader part was debugged by basically rendering data
nfrs: rendering on screen?
yangman: yup. the code was already there. I was altering it
yangman: I was adding value scaling code specifically
nfrs: btw, what distro should I set up for easiest development?
yangman: basically bypassed the entire Y'CbCr->RGB portion and rendered raw values as one of the primary colours
yangman: personal preference. doesn't matter too much
nfrs: well, I assume I'll need a new kernel
yangman: a source based distro has the advantage that you never have to think about installing dev headers, but you lose out on having to set up a source based distro
nfrs: hehe, yes
nfrs: I'd prefer Ubuntu (most familiar with it), question is how do I set it up after that
airlied: again depends on what you want to do.
airlied: usually you can just install the 2D driver over the system one'
airlied: for 3D you can debug without changing anything on the system
nfrs: ok, I'll leave it for the moment when I have the distro
yangman: how safe it is to replace the kernel depends on the distro. upgrading is typically safe if you do it right
nfrs: what is the required kernel version?
yangman: 2.6.30 for r6xx DRM
nfrs: maybe I'll just install the latest dev build of the upcoming ubuntu
nfrs: I hear they're already using 2.6.30
yangman: actually, latest ubuntu already has r6xx DRM
yangman: not sure. but it's functional
yangman: it's enough to enable EXA and Xv
yangman: for 3D you need experimental stuff
nfrs: I'd prefer to work from the latest git
nfrs: to avoid running into any old bugs
nfrs: ok, thanks again to yangman and airlied. gtg, will be in touch later
Nightwulf|work: hi all
woju: 0. problem: my laptop hangs several minutes after launching 3d application (for example glxgears, cube from compiz, etc.); looks like it overheats; did it happen to somebody? 1. hardware conf: thinkpad t60p, 01:00.0 VGA compatible controller: ATI Technologies Inc M56GL [Mobility FireGL V5200] 2. software: xorg-server, mesa, radeonhd, linux-2.6, dri (r300)
woju: ("several minutes" depends on load and actual temperature, fan speed, emerge running etc. and may shrink to several seconds)
Hildezard: hey all
Hildezard: if i have a radeon 4890 + 1900 in my computer will i have better performance than if i just had 4890???
Hildezard: will it make any difference at all?
Hildezard: sorry bout that
bridgman: woju; there is an option to force a lower power mode for the GPU, but you'll need quite recent radeonhd code (later than 1.2.5)
bridgman: once you install the newer driver, do a "man radeonhd" and look for ForceLowPowerMode
bridgman: Hildezard; no ;)
Hildezard: ah. so my 1900 is as worthy as paperweight eh? :(
bridgman: if you only have one PC, then pretty much...
bridgman: now if you have *two* PCs, everything's different ;)
Obscene_CNN: the 1900 could serve as a heater in the winter ;)
bridgman: and no, we are not releasing programming information to allow its use as a cooler in the summer
Hildezard: hahahahaha :D:D:D
Hildezard: that made my day
Hildezard: what if theoretically i had 4 monitors
Hildezard: lessay i use the 4890 for the first 2 and the 1900 for the other
Hildezard: WHAT WOULD HAPPEN?!
Hildezard: bump bump bummp
abby: can I use xinerama with radeonhd? Nothing I do seems to work to try and get it.
abby: GDM just restarts and restarts until it finally just dies
abby: rather annoying
abby: If I can just get my dual-head display working, everything would be perfect
abby: I don't want to go back to an old as dirt kernel and fglrx :(
adamk_: abby, Is this a single video card?
abby: it is
adamk_: Then you don't want to use xinerama.
adamk_: You want xrandr.
abby: Yeah the second display is plugged into HDMI
abby: xrandr can do an extended desktop of some sort?
adamk_: Take a look at http://www.thinkwiki.org/wiki/Xorg_RandR_1.2 and http://wiki.debian.org/XStrikeForce/HowToRandR12
adamk_: abby, That's what it's designed to do, yes.
adamk_: It only works across single GPUs, at the moment.
abby: oh alright, so I've just been looking at the wrong stuff
abby: One other thing, if I boot with the HDMI cable plugged in and the second display on, GDM goes nuts and my primary display gets all kinds of screen corruption
abby: The X server log gives me nothing afterwards
abby: Should I report this as a bug? If so, who's fault is it?
adamk_: Well that sounds like a bug worth reporting.
adamk_: Or at least mentioning it on the appropriate mailing list.
adamk_: Before you do that, make sure you have xrandr setup properly.
adamk_: Or, at the very least, make sure you don't have multiple screen, device, and monitor sections in your xorg.conf file.
abby: My xorg.conf only has one device, one monitor, and one screen section
abby: But I'll try the xrandr configuration and see if it still happens
adamk_: abby, Odd.. If it only has one of each, and you are getting that corruption, it really does sound like a bug.
abby: alright, testing brb
adamk_: Does everything work once you log in?
abby: i seriously love you adamk_
abby: works like a charm
abby: Only thing is, I can't have it plugged in on startup. I'll report it on the mailing list
adamk_: You can also try the 'radeon' driver.
adamk_: It supports all the same GPUs as radeonhd and might not have that particular bug.
abby: alright, I'll check it out
abby: All that's needed now is some sweet 3D and radeonhd will be perfect
abby: Though I know that's a big collaboration between the Kernel, Mesa, and RadeonHD folks.
obscure1: anyone using a radeon hd 4350?
fauxmight: Is radeonhd (git) playing at all nicely (or playing at all) with DRI2 on r600 atm?
MostAwesomeDude: fauxmight: DRI2 only affects 3D DRI.
MostAwesomeDude: And there's no 3D DRI for r600.
fauxmight: Then no mesa/r600 either? (And thanks for the reply)
MostAwesomeDude: r6xx-rewrite branch of Mesa contains highly experimental code, but nothing usable.
fauxmight: When phoronix said the rewrite branch got merged ... I'm not sure I'm clear. Merged to the current git? Not merged to a release, right?
Zajec: it was radeon-rewrite
Zajec: not r6xx-rewrite :)
Zajec: two other branches
Zajec: radeon-rewrite was rewrite mesa driver for r100-r500
Zajec: r6xx-rewrite contains epxerimental code some-day-called-driver based on similar ideas as new r100-r500 drivers
fauxmight: ok. many thanks
junior: hi there
junior: i just bougth a radeonhd 4850x2 an fglrx are unusable with this card so what can i do to contribute info and testing on this card to help you imporving this card in radeonhd??
junior: i just bougth a radeonhd 4850x2 an fglrx are unusable with this card so what can i do to contribute info and testing on this card to help you imporving this card in radeonhd?
obscure1: dri2 is only for 3d, correct?
Obscene_CNN: junior, right now be patient. The developers are working on it I believe.
junior: thx obs xd
junior: hi guys can anyone tell me how to get radeon latest driver to recognize a 4850x2??
junior: or any other dual gpu card?
yangman: junior: duo GPU cards may or maynot be supported. no one's really tried
junior: well is in the pciid in latest git ill try to compile that one and see
secleinteer: hi, does anyone know how to fix the error "unknown hdmi output type"? i'm running 1.2.5 on arch
secleinteer: the card is a radeon hd 4350
secleinteer: i've got it connected via hdmi to a 1080p hdtv
junior: mmm not sure try the man or the latest git
junior: oh my gooooooooooooooooood 4850x2 running with latest kms git snapshot
junior: no more fglrx yeaaaaaah