raven3x7: I'm getting very slow 2d scrolling on my hd3870. Is there a way to check if 2d accel is actually working?
taiu: raven3x7: xorg.log - check EXA gets enabled
raven3x7: taiu, seems to get enabled although my card isn't recognized http://pastebin.com/d5d6c07c3
adamk_: raven3x7, Pastebin your full /var/log/Xorg.0.log file.
raven3x7: http://pastebin.com/d3db31f4 here it is. seems to have some drm errors now that i look at it
adamk_: Correct, you do not have direct rendering enabled in the server, so you do not have 2D acceleration via EXA.
adamk_: What kernel are you running?
adamk_: I'm not sure when the DRM changes for r600 were introduced.
raven3x7: : wiki says 2.6.30
adamk_: Well that answers your question, then :-)
raven3x7: I thought that happened a while ago tbh. first time i'm testing radeonhd
adamk_: Well the code has been available for a while, but wasn't merged in till 2.6.30 apparently.
raven3x7: thanks for the help. I'll see if i can avoid recompiling the kernel by getting the testing version
woden: i.e. what's better, radeonhd or radeon?
woden: is AtomBIOS merged with the master branch?
yangman: woden: use whatever works, unless you want HDMI audio, which only radeonhd has
yangman: woden: if you need TV-out on a r5xx, then you want radeon
woden: what's the best ati card to get if I just want the best 3d support?
yangman: if you want it now, then any r5xx card
woden: and why is their a split effort between radeon and radeonhd?
yangman: 3D for r6xx/r7xx is still work in progress
woden: aren't the r5xx cards ooooold?
woden: I mean, that is the X1xxx series, right?
woden: What's the best card to get ABOVE the r500 series?
woden: Cuz I looked all over and couldn't find an X1xxx card for any decent price.
yangman: most of them have the same level of support
Obscene_CNN: The one thing a 500 series chip has that I miss is an accelerated 2d diagonal line
Ge0rG: Obscene_CNN: what is that good for? rotating your desktop by 45°?
Ge0rG: ah... isn't most CAD done using 3D nowadays?
Obscene_CNN: not circuit board design
Ge0rG: wow, that certainly is a corner case :)
woden: so any r600/700 is the same as any other?
MostAwesomeDude: woden: In terms of support, yes.
MostAwesomeDude: Obviously, the spendier ones are faster.
woden: yea, i meant in terms of 3d support
MostAwesomeDude: In terms of 3D support, yes.
woden: so, if i wanted 3d support, i could use the closed driver until the open one had more support?
MostAwesomeDude: That's what a lot of people are doing.
woden: what's that the frglx?
Obscene_CNN: Ge0rG, There are also several pieces mesh generation software for computational fluid dynamics that do their own 3d calculations and display stuff in 2d. When you have one million plus nodes with about four lines connecting to each one the 2d diagonal line acceleration really pays off.
woden: I guess there is a problem with fgrlx and 2.6.29 kernels
bridgman: yeah, the latest supported kernel is 2.6.28 right now
woden: that's kind of lame
bridgman: not for the target market; they're mostly running much older kernels
bridgman: it is a pain for someone running a fast moving distro though
woden: well that kernel has already been the 4 patches
woden: it is at .4 now
bridgman: yeah, we're gradually shortening the gap between new stuff coming out and supporting in Linux... we're completely caught up with hardware now but still a ways to go with kernel and xorg
bridgman: right now priority is stabilizing the new features over supporting new framework bits
woden: what's the time-frame looking like for a good 3d support for one of the r600/700 cards in either radeon or radeonhd?
bridgman: about two months ago, in theory ;)
woden: Cuz I'm just about sick of nvidia
bridgman: we had some troubles switching over to the radeon-rewrite code base, but last night it looks like we have the problems narrowed down to one part of the bufmgr code
Ge0rG: woden: maybe its time to try intel gma then ;)
Obscene_CNN: by christmas it will probably be very stable. about this time next year it will be good ;)
woden: and I don't think the nouveau project is anywhere near open-source 3d.....and they don't have the support of nvidia either.
woden: Ge0rG: Intel gma does that even run 3d in hardware?
Ge0rG: woden: probably not that much. but at least it's got drivers...
woden: I'm not a heavy gamer but i need some decent minimal level of 3d here
woden: dont think intel gma would cut the mustard
Ge0rG: is running 3d exclusively on windows.
bridgman: woden; you can still find 5xx cards around for cheap if you look around
bridgman: a lot of the devs pick them up really cheap on ebay
bridgman: I guess it depends how much 3d you really need in the short term
bridgman: some people don't miss it, others can't live without it
woden: bridgman: some of the x1950 are decent 3d...but i dont want used......can't find anything decently priced new-in-box
MostAwesomeDude: Used > new.
MostAwesomeDude: I found an R128 a week ago for $5 at a recycling center. A new, in-box R128 would be a collectors' item at this point. :3
Ge0rG: oops. "rmmod radeon" was a bad idea during xserver runtime
bridgman: you won't find a cheap high end 5xx (they're still $$$) but you can usually find X16xx parts pretty cheap... if you get a 5xx you're looking for a stopgap, spend your $$ on a 7xx when we have 3d going
bridgman: as of last night I'm feeling better about the 3d, but I'm going to stay worried until we get a fix out and running on users systems
woden: i'll end up probably just getting whatever r600/700 is in my price range (100 to 150) and use the fgrlx in the meantime if I need 3d
bridgman: yep, that works.. probably best to install fglrx by building packages so you can switch back and forth with less pain
bridgman: the two drivers over-write each others files to a certain extent
bridgman: you can get a lot of GPU in that price range these days
bridgman: I would probably go with a 4850
woden: Yea, I see 4850 with 1GB memory on newegg for around 120
woden: although its tempting to get the 4870 with the gddr5
bridgman_: depends on how much you will be using proprietary drivers, I guess... it's going to be quite a while before the open source drivers can make use of the extra bandwidth
bridgman_: it's really things like MSAA that benefit from GDDR5, and that's still a ways away I think
woden: i'll save my money then. its about a 50 dollar difference to go from the 4850 to the 4870
edman007: so how is 3d going for my r600 card? is it at a stage that i can have something useful work with it?
woden: i asked that earlier
woden: they said a few more weeks in theory
bridgman_: today no, but we think we found the problem that has been holding us up for the last few weeks
bridgman_: ask again in a few days
edman007: good :)
edman007: because fglrx hates me
bridgman_: did you say bad things about it ?
woden: edman007: fglrx doesn't work with 2.6.29 you know that right?
edman007: bridgman_, well for the last year or so fglrx has decided that if the kernel module is loaded x won't load...
edman007: woden, i tried 4 kernels and a half dozen versions of the driver
woden: The new catalyst 9.6 doesn't work with 2.6.29+ and x-server 1.6
edman007: we already covered this a while ago, i stumped bridgman_
woden: Which X are you running?
edman007: that covers everything i had 6 months ago, i tried newer versions since then, same error
woden: well, anyway, fgrlx will come out with a new version soon
edman007: xorg is currently at 1.4.2 on my system
woden: why are you using catalyst 8.6 and 8.7?
edman007: woden, that was the latest when i posted
woden: have you tried 9.5 or 9.6?
bridgman_: should work with 1.6, that's in Jaunty AFAIK
woden: What's a Jaunty
bridgman_: some kinda weird rabbit with horns, don't ask me ;)
bridgman_: the picture is kind of abstract
edman007: i have tried 3 versions of x (1.4.0 through 1.4.2), 4 versions of the kernel (2.6.24, 2.6.26, 2.6.27, 2.6.28), and every version of fglrx from 8.6 to 9.5, same error
woden: something is probably jacked up in your arch install then
woden: is your hardware working?
woden: like, have you tried other distros to verify it works?
edman007: i'm using radeonhd right now, 2d works flawlessly
woden: well, that proves nothing
woden: you need to exercise the 3d part of the chip
edman007: hmm, do you know anything that i can use to run fglrx off a CD? does ubuntu do that?
woden: no i don't think ubuntu does that
woden: you'd have to make some space on your drive and do an install i think
edman007: i thought no distro has fglrx on the CD
woden: none that i know of, cuz its not gpl
edman007: hmm, i might be able to get the ubuntu CD to do it though
bridgman_: not on the live CD but I think that's just 'cause it's big
edman007: i got lots of ram, so space is a non-issue for me
woden: yea, if you have lots of ram, i think the ubuntu livecd uses that as space to make changes
bridgman_: some distros include binary drivers as optional add-ons, but they all prefer to start with open source drivers (which makes sense)
woden: i mean, if you tried so many combinations (ones that SHOULD work) and it errors out, I'd want to verify my hardware, starting with the 3d functionality on the chip
woden: and also verify the soundness of your arch setup
edman007: alright, i'll try that soon
woden: easiest way to do that is to install another distro
bridgman_: may I humbly suggest Jaunty ;)
woden: I used arch for about a year then just got sick of it
woden: on fedora 11 now
masa-: my gentoo just-broke a couple of days ago
masa-: it was working fine one night, i played some Urban Terror with my new hw (HD3100), then i shut down the pc during night and the next day when i try to boot it up, i can't get X to work anymore
masa-: not with fglrx, not with radeon, not with radeonhd
masa-: finally i was able to get a lagging cursor with vesa :p
masa-: then i swapped to my old broken 6600GT and X worked once again..
masa-: then bak to HD3100 and no go
masa-: Xorg.0.log has nothing usefull
masa-: no (EE) lines
masa-: except for Type1 and some other module, but it still works with 6600GT
adamk_: masa-, If X is trying to start up, but failing, there has to be something in /var/log/Xorg.0.log.
adamk_: Unless X is starting up successfully, but something is not working with the ports and nothing is getting sent to your monitor.
masa-: no i get the "blue screen"
masa-: there is some back trace, 3 lines
adamk_: "blue screen" ?
masa-: the X error screen which asks if i want to view the errors/log
yangman: that means it's detected some problem, so there's something useful in the logs
yangman: check Xorg.0.log.old
masa-: there were about 20 lines with fglrx crying about some pci ids that did not have any device section or something
masa-: but that was of course not the case with the open drivers
adamk_: Well we don't care about fglrx :-)
adamk_: Seriously, pastebin the log file from when you used radeonhd (or radeon).
masa-: i don't have the log file at hand, cause i booted with nvidia after that so the log is gone :/
adamk_: Well you'll have to put the HD3100 back in then.
masa-: i was going to install a fresh gentoo on top of that, but maybe i'll boot that old one tomorrow and get the logs
masa-: i just wonder what could brake by itself so that only nvidia works
adamk_: The hardware?
masa-: i didnät install or upgrade anything after the one evening that everything worked fine
masa-: nope, i'm on jayntu atm with the HD3100
masa-: jaunty even..
adamk_: Well something changed on the gentoo system. :-)
masa-: yeah, but what..
masa-: i tried to recompile the kernel and reinstall fglrx/rdaeon/rdaeonhd drivers but no luck
adamk_: We'd have to be psychic to know what changed, now wouldn't we? :-)
masa-: also my crappy asus 22" monitor does not handle the 1680x1050 resolution from the VGA input
masa-: it is aligned wrong, its' either too much to the left or right
masa-: when i try to adjust it through the menu, it does nothing until it suddenly jumps to the other side
masa-: it cuts mybe some 100-150 pixels
masa-: "ons" is the first thing i see from the Gnome menu :)
masa-: 1440x900 it aligns correctly, but it just looks crappy
masa-: and no DVI output on this cheap motherboard :/